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Nicole: [00:00:00] We are here today with Liz for our second season of the Power of MoMMAs Voices podcast. We're really focusing in on people with lived experience and, and listening to them, giving them a place to share their story and their expertise as well. So, Liz Gray here with us today.
Thank you so much for joining us. And as we get started, so one thing I always like to start with on the beginning of these is like, if someone were to only listen to the first five minutes, what's one thing you would want them to take away with this?
Liz: There's so many things, but I would say the one thing is that for anyone who's listening that whether you're navigating infertility, pregnancy.
A loss, birth trauma, a NICU stay, or any other type of complication or traumatic experience that you deserve? Kind, loving, compassionate, trauma-informed [00:01:00] care during the delicate perinatal period. Ambient.
Nicole: Thank you. That's so true. And the beyond part of it. And so, so often the beyond gets a little bit swept aside into what that can look like.
And it's really a hard time. We have someone on our team that's very, very pregnant right now. We'll probably have delivered by the time this gets aired. All I can think about is like, oh, the sleep deprivation and how hard that was and how much it really impacts you. And I don't envy her in that aspect at all.
So we're just, we're here to also love and support on her and, and however, you know, her pregnancy ends and motherhood begins and, and her, her leave. So we're just, we're all excited for her. But yeah, I was thinking today. Mm-hmm. I don't miss that sleep deprivation part.
Liz: Well, and that really warms my heart to hear you just talk about her in that way, because I [00:02:00] think having a supportive team, of course it's medical professionals, but also it's having friends or coworkers or family members or partners or whoever it is, kind of, you know, rallying around.
A pregnant person and you know, new parent, and I wish that I'd had that experience of having more support. So I'm just feeling so, just grateful I guess on her behalf hearing you, hearing you talk about that, because I think that's so important to, to surround yourself with with people who are really excited for you.
Nicole: Thanks. And then today I was like, she's like, I'm planning on working until, you know, this child arrives. And I'm like, please don't be that person that takes your laptop with you to the hospital. There's no need for that. Just leave it at home. Just, and she's like, oh no. I was like, good, good. Just making sure we're on the same page.
Don't be that person. There's no need. We got it. Yeah, we got it. Well talking about, we'll talk about like your pregnancy journey, your, like, your advocacy journey. [00:03:00] What does that look like for you? What, what got you started and where have you gone with that?
Liz: Yeah, I, I might get into different pieces of my story.
I'd say there's kind of three distinct pieces or chapters of my story. Like there's the infertility piece, which is where it all started. So that's probably where I'll start in a minute. But then there's the actual labor and delivery piece, which was really challenging and complicated. And then also for me, it was the fourth trimester.
Specifically with a pediatrician who traumatized my husband and I. So I think all of these, there's like this common thread though that we, that weaves through the insensitive UNT trauma informed providers from all three of those situations is that I, I felt like I wasn't heard or seen and that my trauma history really wasn't taken into consideration and I just felt like a number.
I felt like a body, so. I guess I can start with the, with the infertility [00:04:00] piece because that is, was something that I never expected or thought that I would have to navigate until I was there. Mm-hmm. And going through, first of all, to, to hear the words like you. You you have infertility, like you are, you are infertile.
There is a medical reason why you, plural, you and your husband can't conceive naturally. And there's really, there's only 1% chance without intervention. So I think hearing those words and then just the physical, emotional, psychological. Mental relational toll that infertility can take on anyone is huge.
And for me, I have a history of sexual trauma and so I went into my, I guess, fertility treatment journey. Being [00:05:00] extra aware that everything I would be going through could potentially be re-traumatizing for me. Or newly traumatizing, I guess there, whether it's retraumatizing or, or new trauma. And the moment I, we started with a round of IUI intrauterine insemination before we moved on to IVF with a different clinic and doctor.
But I did the IUI procedure. It was not pleasant. There are lots of pieces of that. But a couple weeks later when the, when my doctor called to tell us that I was not pregnant. What's interesting is that it wasn't the words, you're not pregnant. That upset me the most because. We only had an 8% chance with IUI.
We knew that it was so low. So I wasn't necessarily, I was disappointed, but I wasn't surprised. I wasn't. But it was what happened afterwards in this conversation that literally changed my life. And so I had told her. In that conversation I said, I just wanna [00:06:00] remind you of my history. And I told, I reminded her exactly what my trauma history was and I said, so if we do move forward with IVF, I do not want to have a baby around my trauma anniversary.
Mm-hmm. And that. I think seems like a pretty reasonable request, especially with IVF. You have a lot more, or should have a lot more autonomy and choice about kind of when you know what certain months, when you do cycles, when you do retrievals and transfers. And so I was shocked to hear her push back and she said, well, you know, a lot of my patients like to be pregnant around the holidays because it can be a nice distraction.
And that was the moment that everything changed for me. I was angry, I was sad, I felt [00:07:00] defensive. You know, on the phone we kind of hung up. My husband and I were on a three-way call with her 'cause I was in the car and he called me right after and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, I'm not okay.
Like he knew. He knew the damage that had been done and mm-hmm. That really was the moment that fueled this fire under me to act to do something because I knew that if I was being treated this way, like one simple request or reminder, because I know myself best in my body and I didn't wanna be. First of all, pregnant around the holidays, and also have a baby on my trauma anniversary.
That is so hard for me every year for the rest of my life. You know, I, that's not a doctor that I could continue working with.
Nicole: So, dismissive,
Liz: very,
Nicole: so dismissive. Oh wow. So many responses in my mind, but the most is [00:08:00] just like, so. Yeah. Dismissive, my gosh. Mm-hmm. I'm glad that you were mindful of what those triggers were for you and knowing like, yeah, that's not gonna, that's not gonna work for me.
And where did you go from, from there? Yeah, so I, I mean, immediately I knew I never, she's, she's not the right doctor for me. So I was on. A quest to find a new fertility clinic because I knew that most likely we were gonna have to go through IVF and I knew that she was not the person that I was gonna do it with.
Liz: And so I actually set up a couple of consultations with other providers and that's when I started being really intentional about asking new providers, how are you trauma informed, like during a consultation. And I. Didn't know what answer I was looking for, but mm-hmm. I can tell you after [00:09:00] asking the question to multiple providers throughout, you know, going through infertility, pregnancy, and postpartum, that I can tell you an answer that did not sit well with me.
I could tell you what a wrong answer is which essentially is no answer.
Nicole: I mean, having been through that kind of journey with I UIs and IVF mm-hmm. Like that alone of the constant appointments and checks and ultrasounds like, is so invasive. Yes. It's so invasive. Like you. You lose all of that. And then I've heard people say like, oh, well just wait till you actually have a baby.
Well, I had a C-section so we know, but like, you know, labor, like you just, you lose all of that and I can't imagine being someone with a trauma history and not being, and having a provider that's not sensitive to that fact in that setting because it is just walking trauma every single time you go in there.
Liz: Absolutely. It's heightened, everything [00:10:00] is heightened, right? If you're on medications or you, you are, you know, having injections, medication, like that's, that's doing so much just to our, to our bodies and to hormones and to our moods. So that on top of already being anxious about the process and then having potential triggers that come up that reactivate us.
It just, it's a recipe for someone going in and just being kind of walking around, traumatized, and so, mm-hmm I, that's kind of where like I'm on a mission to not only find trauma informed providers for myself in every type of provider that I have needed, but also to help. Close the gap and make it easier for other women and birthing people to access trauma-informed providers, which is why I created a national directory based on that, that first experience, because I'm like, no, this is happening.
This has to be happening everywhere. It's awful. So let me kind of, from both sides of [00:11:00] it, I wanna help train providers on being trauma-informed and also help empower parents, mothers, birthing people that you get to have a say in the type of care that you get. And if a doctor is not sensitive or kind, or doesn't acknowledge certain pieces of your past or your present, or you know, certain wishes that you have, then it's okay to say.
Yeah, it's okay to fire them. Yeah.
Nicole: People have such a hard you know, I, I feel like some, so often there's a ton of providers that I love, but people, patients look at them and like, well, they went to middle school, school and they have all this knowledge and they know better than me. And really take that at like face value and, and put that, elevation to that, you know, title and position. And then I think of just, I don't know. There's just so many. There's just so many out there like that either are doing it great and [00:12:00] patients just are going there or they're not doing it. Great. Patients just keep going there. Or patients are afraid to change.
They don't realize that they can change. You can change in the middle of your pregnancy if you're not getting treated properly and that's okay. Like, yeah, it's a big scary thing and it's a huge. Huge like step to take, but it's possible and it can be done.
Liz: Yes. Yeah. It is absolutely challenging. That's not the way that any of us want it to go.
Mm-hmm. We're already, you're already going through. A lot. And then to have to think about establishing care with a new provider and then could have the thought, oh my gosh, like what if this isn't the right one, then is it something wrong with me? But no, I'm here to say that there's nothing wrong with wanting and deserving to be treated with compassion and kindness and care and like a real human being and mm-hmm.
You know, provider A could. Be an amazing medical doctor and not be the right provider for you.
Nicole: Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. I am, I am completely supportive of, of all of that. So you found another provider mm-hmm. And continued on your journey, and what did that look like?
Liz: Yeah, so did a couple consultations.
Ended up choosing a, a doctor who I felt like was trauma informed and had a really good team. I was assigned a dedicated nurse, and it's sad that that is a big deal, but in some clinics and maybe even my own, I'm not sure if this was just because of me requesting trauma-informed care, but, you know, it was kind of a big deal to have one nurse who, because that's the person other, you know, the nurse and the the, the ultrasound technician.
That's pretty much who I'm seeing the most often. And phlebotomist, you know, the, the actual doctor, the reproductive endocrinologist. I actually went through three egg retrievals and [00:14:00] a transfer, and I didn't meet her until the frozen egg transfer. So I never met her in person until Wow.
Nicole: Did all the ultrasounds.
Liz: Yeah, I've heard that for mine. I mean, she is so well known in the Chicagoland area and so busy that I, I'm sure, I think she was at, you know, kind of different clinics and doing lots of things, so, yeah.
Nicole: Opposed to, so what was the thing that you, you were talking about, like, you asked them like, what's trauma-informed, like, what do you do for trauma-informed care?
And you said you got like bad answers. What was a good answer? The best answer was when I was looking for a midwife because I knew that I wanted midwifery care throughout my pregnancy. You know, just a personal preference instead of having an OB GYN. And so I. I ended up meeting with I think, maybe three different midwives, [00:15:00] and I'll tell one of them who I'd actually, she had been referred to me, I'd heard great things when I met with her.
Liz: I actually just, I, I, I didn't feel connected to her. I felt kind of a cold vibe from her, and when I asked her like, how are you trauma-informed, she just kinda looked at me and said. Oh, I've never thought about that. I don't know. And even my husband afterward, he said it's right on the door. She could have at least come up with some answer.
So it's great that they had something on their door, but to me that she wasn't the right person. However, the midwife and the practice that I chose was at a, a birth center. And when I asked the question, how are you trauma informed Mary is her name, she. Oh my gosh. It's, it was the most beautiful answer.
I wrote it down in the moment and I wish I had access to it right now. I don't remember which notebook it's in, but it was basically like reminders that anytime that she is, you know, gonna do any kind of check or [00:16:00] touch, she's gonna ask for consent. That if something is painful or feels like too much, I can let her know and she can either, you know, slow down or pause or stop that I am the expert.
I know myself and my body best, and that she's part of the team, but that she also is there to learn from me, and that was the piece that more than anything, like I said, I wasn't looking for a specific answer, but it was more just knowing that she saw me as a human being, not just as a body or a number, and that I got to be part of this process.
Nicole: So we've been doing a lot of projects recently and trauma-informed care. I mean, it's a hot topic right now. Everybody, it's, it's, it reminds me of how like patient engagement working with patients in your projects was when we first started Obama's voices where everybody's very skittish about it. [00:17:00] Like they knew they needed to do it.
They started to get the like, oh yeah, we need to do that. But didn't know how to do it, and were so scared to harm someone, they just froze and did nothing. And it's reminding me of the same thing with trauma-informed care. There was a project we worked on a year ago and across the state, like all the hospitals, like, where, where do you see this fitting in?
Like, how important is it to you? And it was all. Top of the importance, where are you ready to do this? We're not at all like don't even know where to begin. And so we're working now still again with this same state and we're layering trauma-informed care on so many different things. And it's fantastic for me sitting in the room and being part of the faculty to see it coming to life and to see it being part of discussions and to see other people besides just myself talking about it and other providers and.
MFMs and ob GYNs talking about, this is how you do it. This is what it means. I'm like, yes, yes, we're getting there.
Liz: Oh, I love that you're doing [00:18:00] that. And it has to be such a multi-layer, multi-tiered approach, like trauma informed care is, it's basically. Just assuming that anyone walking into your room, into the office, into the environment could potentially be walking in with a history of trauma and is actually more likely than not to have a trauma history and can be re-traumatized at any point.
And so, you know, I think some people are like kind of scared of, you know, what does it, what does it mean? I don't know. It's truly what I would say is for providers, you know, knowing their, their selves. Examining their own stories and histories because we, I'm, I'm a, a trauma therapist. I'm A-L-C-S-W. We all have our own stuff.
We all come in to work every day carrying our own histories and our own pain, and we have to, to work on that, to heal and do our [00:19:00] own work in order to help others. And so I think one of the first pieces of trauma-informed care is just acknowledging your own history and maybe what types of patients or people or policies in the workplace may.
Trigger or activate you as the provider and mm-hmm. You know, and it's also, it's top down, like it comes, it's, you know, it has to be organizational. There has to be things in place, you know, policies in place that protect that trauma-Informed care also needs, it protects staff, right? It's not just.
It's not only about how are we trauma informed with our patients, but how is an organization supporting their staff who will then be able to better support their patients? Yes. So it's lots of different layers.
Nicole: Yes. You cannot care for patients while if you're in a trauma response yourself. Exactly.
And so you have to be able to, to work through that or have your tools and things like that. Mm-hmm. There was this doctor I [00:20:00] talked to years ago at an event, and I use this as an example all the time because the secondary trauma, like it really came through to me when I was having this conversation with her and we're talking about, I don't even know what we're talking about.
Somehow we got on the topic of like women that are pregnant with cardiac conditions and she says, mind you, she's still practicing in a clinic and she's telling me this story. She goes, I think that any woman that has cardiac issues should not be allowed to have a baby, should not be allowed to get pregnant.
Like they just shouldn't. And I just said, okay, tell me more. Like why do you feel that way? And through the discussion, I learned that she sat on the State Maternal Mortality Review Committee and. Had seen so many cases of women that had died because they had cardiac conditions, and she felt like that was preventable by not getting pregnant in the first place.
And so I left that conversation with her. Just really like, wow, she's been so traumatized by that. It's affecting the way she's practicing in her clinic [00:21:00] and, and really just like we have to have a better solution because that's not an, in my opinion, an appropriate response like. We're, we're, what can, what can we do?
What can we meet you with? What plan can we put into place? Kind of thing. And so just being very aware of what that is and what that looks like. And I think the more we bring also patients like this to the podcast, to other presentations, and we bring that face and that heart to the data and the stats.
A friend of mine says like, we get so. Focused on the outcomes that we forget about the experience. And we have to spend some time looking at what the experience is because that matters. And one, and the words make a big, big difference. And things can impact a lifetime by something that is said, whether intentionally, unintentionally but like, how can we do better there?
Liz: Yes, words matter, especially for someone who is. Pregnant or in labor [00:22:00] or postpartum, like words matter so much and someone can do so much harm, a provider can do harm. And I also wanna remind you that there is a place for repair. I think that piece is so important. Like when I'm looking for a trauma-informed provider, I don't expect perfection.
I don't think that's possible. Mm-hmm. So I. Completely understand that a provider might unintentionally, hopefully unintentionally make a mistake or have a rupture with me. But the key is, are they willing and able to have that repair mm-hmm. With a patient. And I practice that a lot as a therapist.
I know what looks different as a medical provider especially if, you know, you're not necessarily meeting with someone. Weekly for an hour the way that I do. But I do think that there's room, even if it's coming back a couple minutes later being or like reaching out to someone after the fact, Hey, I [00:23:00] was thinking about our interaction and you know, I saw, I saw the way that you reacted and I just wanted to check in and, you know, see if, if we can talk about it, see how you're doing.
I'm so sorry if, if that came off as blank. Is there anything that you need from me? Is there anything that we can do to. Move forward together. Mm-hmm. Like that is often missing, but that piece is so important.
Nicole: It's so important. And it's not, it's, it's showing that vulnerability and that like self-reflection, like you talked about, like mm-hmm.
I've done it before. Like, oh, I really stuck my foot in my mouth and going back the next day and saying like, I recognize that I stuck my foot in my mouth yesterday. And I just wanna let you know, like I lost sleep about it. I didn't sleep and I, I can't go through the day without getting this off my chest like I recognize.
What I did and what I said, and I hope that didn't offend you, and if it did that we can move past that and maybe talk through it or whatever. But oh yes, those things [00:24:00] happen. And being able to be open and honest and, and having human to human discussion like I'm with you. Like I don't expect providers to be perfect.
They're also human, but let's, let's bring that back to healthcare. Like we've lost it. I don't know, maybe we didn't have it in the beginning, but like, how do we get there?
Liz: Yeah, we do need to bring it back that humanity, because it's vulnerable and scary and can be a very new experience for especially a first time parent.
And so we're looking to our providers to offer, you know, I, I think about it like when you're on an airplane, I always look at the flight attendants, you know, if there's turbulence, I look at them and if they're. Just carrying on business as usual. I'm like, okay, that helps me just kind of take a breath.
I'm safe, I'm okay. But if, luckily I've never seen this, but if I were to see them panic and, you know, go run back to their seat and buckle up and, and have a really [00:25:00] urgent tone of voice, you know, coming onto the speaker, that would be such a different feeling. So we are looking to providers too. Have that sense of calm and safety and, and also to, to be a human too.
Like we're all, we, at the end of the day, we're all just humans trying to do our best. Exactly.
Nicole: Exactly. So you've talked about like the moments, were there any other moments that you felt like particularly seen or heard? We talked about some that you did and so that you didn't, were there any others? You said there's a lot to talk about.
Liz: Moments that I've fucked to, I've seen or heard definitely with that, with that midwife.
It's funny, it's like when I ask clients, when I'm first meeting them about their strengths, and that's usually the [00:26:00] hardest question to answer.
Nicole: Because we're so, you can do weaknesses real well. Right, right. So I'm thinking about
Liz: this, how about when you,
Nicole: I always like think of like what builds trust between a patient and a provider.
Like how do you build trust with someone and they'll oftentimes, like I, I can point out what doesn't build trust. Yeah. But what are the things that build it?
Liz: I think one piece is I ended up doing three egg retrievals and I did them back to back to back. Which was, and actually there's something called Duo stim, which is essentially two egg retrievals in one cycle.
And so it was really hard on my body because we didn't really wait. We kind of just, after my egg retrieval couple days and then I went right back into prepping for the next one. It did yield. Pretty good results, but it was just a lot in my body. And So a lot on your mind? A lot of, [00:27:00] yes. Body, mind, everything.
Yes. And I think one of the pieces of going for infertility that I actually am really grateful for is that I got to, I did, I was able to have a little bit of choice and control. In certain aspects. So for example, getting to choose the month that we did the transfer, mm-hmm. Knowing that we did in August, and then my son was born in April.
Another piece is we did do testing. So we did the, oh, what's it, the genetic testing? Oh, I
Nicole: can't remember. Yeah, the genetic, I can't remember the acronym or initial found. Yeah. Well we did genetic
Liz: testing, but then there's, yeah, I'm forgetting. But testing for each, each time we did a retrieval. We then sent the embryos that we made we sent them out to be tested to see which were OIDs, which are healthy embryos and which were pls.
So for my first two egg retrievals, we [00:28:00] got a total of, we had five healthy embryos and all five were girls. And. I had been set on having a boy, and I know for some people it that doesn't matter, but to me, for lots of personal reasons, I was like pretty devastated. And it was very hard because there was so many, I was so grateful that IBF was working, and also I knew, I just knew I needed to do another retrieval.
So we ended up doing a third retrieval, and I remember texting my, my doctor who was wonderful and gave out her phone number to her patients. Mm-hmm. And saying to her, I. At this point, we were actually still waiting on the results for the second, from the second retrieval. So at that point I only knew that I had one health, 'cause I got one, the first retrieval, and then four, the second one.
[00:29:00] And so we were waiting on those results trying to decide if we were gonna do a third retrieval. Even though in my gut I knew I have to do it, I just have to. And I said to her, I was like, I'm so. I feel a lot of shame and embarrassment even saying this, but I really wanna do another retrieval 'cause I, I'm really hoping to get a boy.
And she said, oh my gosh. Like that's, I felt the same way when I went through IVF. And I did X amount of retrievals myself to be able to get, I think she said a girl. So it just, it was that moment because I feel like, you know, in society there, there can be a lot of judgment about that and people have very various.
Opinions and I totally get that. And of course there is a part of me that feels like a lot of shame about that. And also I know what's right for me and my family. And so just to hear someone else say, no, I get it. I've been there too, and like, this needs to work for you. It made such a big difference for me, [00:30:00] and I was able to go into that next retrieval and we got three healthy embryos.
Two were boys. One of them was the, the. Healthiest graded out of all eight. We had total, and he's now my one and a half year old son.
Nicole: That's awesome. And that you, like you were given permission. Yeah. Essentially like it's okay and that's normal and your doctor really did a good job of like meeting you where you're at and reassuring you that that's okay.
Mm-hmm. In a way that didn't have any like stigma with it too. She was able to relate with you. That's amazing. Sometimes we just need that permission.
Liz: Permission and understanding and just, yeah. That validation.
Nicole: Mm-hmm.
So when you first learned about MoMMAs Voices, what was it that really what was it that you found interesting? What intrigued you to get started with MoMMAs Voices?[00:31:00]
Liz: I, I think sharing my story has been really healing for me. Also I've seen the impact that my words can have on other people, and I didn't really know where to get started. So, for example, I love to be able to go on podcasts and it would be so nice if I just had, you know, a person dedicated to finding, you know, kind of being the matchmaker and finding podcasts for me to go on.
Because for me it's all the other stuff that kind of gets in the way of finding places and then pitching and then going back and forth. So. Learning about this. I mean, everything that MoMMAs voice does is just so amazing and unheard of. Just unbelievable. And I love the piece that, oh my gosh, I could get this training to be able to really help me condense my story because there's so many different pieces of it.
So I knew that I would have support [00:32:00] from other people to be able to like pick out the pieces that feel most. Helpful and important to share and then to also have support in finding opportunities to that, that are right for me. Mm-hmm.
Nicole: What would you say to someone that's considering beginning MoMMAs voice as patient family partner training?
What would you have any words of advice for them?
Liz: Yeah. I think one piece is to think about your why. What the reason is and kind of where you are in your process of, of healing. It's okay if your why right now is I'm angry. It's okay if your why is I wanna understand my own story more, I wanna understand other people's, right?
If it's purely coming from a place of, of anger, maybe that is a place for you to pause and maybe go through the training and. [00:33:00] Not share your story with other people until you've done a little bit more healing. Mm-hmm. And for other people who are like, I just like, I've done so much of my own healing and work, and I'm ready to make a difference, I'm ready to advocate, I'm ready to, to be able to share my story, to answer questions, to hopefully prevent this from happening to other people.
You know, I would say make sure that you have as much support as you need. Take your time. Going through the training, it took me. A good amount of time, and I've heard from other people too that, you know, it could take a, a year to go through all of it. That's okay. Do it at your own pace and when you feel ready that the world is is ready for you and there will be a place to share your story.
Nicole: We don't judge, we do not judge people that take a while to go through the training because I think that we all have seasons when things are extra heavy and when they aren't, or work or life or you know, kids, all those things that we're trying to juggle. And, and so you might, it might [00:34:00] not be right now.
And that's kinda way I look at it. It's like it's right now and then there's some people that it's, it's not period. Mm-hmm. And those are the ones like our. That they'll message us in the middle of the training saying, you know what, this just, I realize this isn't for me. I'm not there yet. And I'm like, okay.
And I'm okay with that. And I completely respect it. In fact, appreciate it. Yeah. When I hear those things, because we don't wanna put somebody out there that's, I feel like, at a higher risk for being hurt and that they're able to be honest and recognize that in themselves.
Liz: Exactly, and that's another piece of just feeling empowered to be able to say, actually, this isn't right for me right now, and that that's okay.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole: Yep. We're always like, well, whenever you're ready. We've even had people that have finished and become certified payment family, patient, family partners, and life got really busy. They moved or something happened and they were like, you know what, just don't match me for right now. Like, don't put me on your match list.
And I said, okay, no problem. If things change, let us know. I just have you [00:35:00] archived. It can turn you back on like that. Just let us know if, if your situation changes. And so just being supportive to people in that aspect and, and them knowing that it's okay if they don't finish. And that's a great
Liz: point too about seasons.
Like I'm, I'm even thinking about, especially for birth trauma or really any kind of trauma, the, the anniversary, the milestones of that, that for some people it actually might help. Feel really empowering around that time to, to have something almost like a purpose, right? Something to go and to be able to, to share their story.
And for other people they need to retreat more and really focus on them. And that neither is right or wrong. But knowing yourself really best of kind of what you need around certain times I think is really helpful.
Nicole: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Well, as we're wrapping up with this episode of our podcast, is there anything else you would like to share with our listeners that we haven't maybe touched on today?[00:36:00]
Liz: Trust yourself. Trust your intuition. Your body knows, and even if your mind hasn't quite made the connection yet. If there's anything that internally tells you, Ooh, I, something doesn't feel right about this doctor, this provider, this situation, this environment, that it's okay to give yourself some time to process it, to think about it, to talk to other people, and.
Kind of coming back to what I talked about at the beginning, if something is off, you don't have to have a reason. You don't have to say, well, because of this thing, it could be as simple as, I just didn't feel right. Something didn't feel right, and I know that I need to x, y, or Z. Mm-hmm.
Nicole: That's so great. We, we often said at the Preeclampsia Foundation in the years past of like, know the system, know the symptoms, and trust yourself.
Because you're gonna know when you feel off better than [00:37:00] anybody else's. And it's really like the, the start of self-advocacy is trust is knowing you can trust yourself. Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. Well, thank you Liz, for taking your time today and joining us and just opening up and talking about some really hard things.
Infertility is a heavy weight on people going through it, partners going through it, families going through it, and, thank you for, for talking about how those providers can be trauma-informed as well, and, and making sure that there's, there's space for that in this healthcare system that we're trying to make better.
Liz: Well, thank you for making space for me and hearing my story, and I hope that even if one person hears this, whether you're a provider or a patient that. You know, just, just kinda keep the words, trauma-informed care in the back of your brain.
Nicole: Yes. Excellent. Well, thank you so
Liz: much. Thank [00:38:00] you.
